Are you looking for ways to transform your company for growth and success? Then listen to this episode as Paul Hevesy discusses the importance of organizational effectiveness. Companies have different organizational goals and strategies. But one thing that is common among them is measuring and being mindful of their objectives. Paul shares his career and experience in sales, operations, general management, and HR at Stanley Black & Decker, and how he views organizational effectiveness in the said company. What are the different aspects that contribute to organizational success? Stay tuned and find out more!
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Organizational Effectiveness For Growth And Success With Paul Hevesy
[00:00:02] Welcome to another episode of the show. You are amazing. Follow me on LinkedIn, have a conversation and send me an email at Ben@YourBrandMarketing.com. Let me know what you like. Tell me what you don’t like and who you want me to talk to. I love this audience. We have been doing this for years and have 270-plus episodes. It is an incredible show and I have incredible guests. I have somebody that you will like. Paul Hevesy from Stanley Black & Decker is in the house. He has been with the company for years. We’re going to talk about organizational effectiveness. Paul, welcome to the show.
[00:00:46] Thank you, Ben. It’s great to be here with you and your great audience. I’m looking forward to the conversation.
[00:00:53] I’m excited about this. We were introduced by Pablo Gonzalez. It was a great conversation. Pablo says, “You got to meet Paul.” I said, “I’m in.” I love when people I know say, “You have to meet this person.” It’s because 99 times out of 100, it’s a great conversation. This has not disappointed me so far.
[00:01:23] He said the same thing about you. Between the two of us, I’m glad we got together, shout-out to Pablo. If we’re paying enough attention to what Pablo is putting out there, this is part of his Relationship Flywheel. We’re part of that.
[00:01:42] If he is the flywheel, he is the cog that brings people together. I love people that have that selflessness. They sit and go, “There’s nothing in this for me but you should meet this person because the two of you are going to do great things together. Let me get out of the way, make the introduction and let people do what they do.” What we all could learn from that is take the ego out of it. Don’t expect anything in return and sit there going, “If I can introduce these people and it’s going to make their lives better, why not?”
[00:02:21] Pablo personifies that. If you haven’t followed Pablo Gonzalez on LinkedIn, you should.
[00:02:37] He’s a great person to know. Follow him and connect with him. He is somebody you need to know in this world of great people. Let’s get into this because this is going to be a great conversation on organizational effectiveness. Before we do, let’s get into a little bit about you. You have been with Stanley Black & Decker for years. Give me a little history of what brought you to Stanley and what you have been doing so we have some context of where we’re going.
[00:03:13] Going way back out of college, I did some nonprofit work. I have always had an interest and focus on communication. Communication has always been an important thing for me. Years ago, getting a Speech Communications degree from Eastern Illinois University brought me to this point in a winding way. After a couple of years of nonprofit work, I wanted to get into sales. The thing I found out, which perhaps some of the readers may have experienced too, is at least back then, it was hard to get your first sales job.
Everyone hiring for sales is looking for someone with sales experience. When you don’t have sales experience, trying to find a job in sales can be challenging. I was a little bit desperate but I had to get experience somewhere. I originally accepted a job selling telephone book ads. If you remember the old phone book way back, it’s no base salary and 100% commission. I said, “If that’s what’s available, I’m going to take it.” Thankfully, God had something a little bit different in mind for me.
Even before I started that job, not as good as Pablo Gonzales networking but through networking, I knew somebody who knew somebody. They were hiring for a sales job and that’s how I got started. I was able to get on with that company. Within about a year and a half of being with that company, that company was bought by a company at the time known as The Stanley Works company. That was back starting in 2001. The sale happened in 2002. Since then, I have been part of Stanley Black & Decker.
The Stanley Black & Decker company merged with that Black and Decker business back in the 2010 timeframe. There are all kinds of cool experiences with Stanley Black & Decker. One of the reasons I have stayed as long as I have is they’ve given me all kinds of cool experiences from sales to sales leadership and operations. I spent some time in HR. I used to think your career path was only vertical. What I have learned over time is that there’s a ton of value. If not fully vertical, it’s also this horizontal career path.
What I mean by that is the more varied experiences may not feel like you’re moving up but as long as you get diverse experiences, it makes you very valuable to the company. I have tried to do both and had opportunities to advance up the traditional career path for example, up in sales to sales manager to national sales leader and those types of things. I have also gone more horizontal and tried to get a broader breadth of experience. A company like Stanley Black & Decker has not only allowed me to do that but also supported me in that effort. It has been great.
[00:06:44] That’s magical to be with the same company in today’s standards with over twenty years. I can think of the number of people I know of our generation that have been with a company for 20 years on 2 hands and 2 toes. There are not a lot of people. When I first started years ago, I used to work with airlines. The airlines used to be big clients of mine. You would have people that were 35, 40 and 45 years within the company.
You don’t see that anymore. It’s a Testament to Stanley Black & Decker and you to realize, “I’m not just going to go for a vertical, sit there and say, ‘I’m going to get as high as I can go within this vertical.’ I’m going to expand my knowledge and breath, meet new people, network and build new relationships,” which makes you stronger and more valuable.
You understand various parts of the organization, how they tick, what their challenges are, what their specialties are and what are the things that they need to succeed. Whereas people who have just gone vertical sit there going, “I’m going to go from the salesman to the sales manager to sales leader and up.” They don’t know because they’re so stuck within their silo.
First of all, kudos to you for that. Second of all, I want to know how has that shaped your thought process being within the same company? We’re talking about the crisis in 2000, 2008 and 2020. Going through all those crises with the same company, how has that affected you? How has that made you a better employee of Stanley Black & Decker? What have you learned from it?
[00:08:43] The first thing that comes to mind with that question is value. The thing I have learned is the higher you go in an organization, the more valuable you have to be. What my value was as an individual contributor in sales is so much different. This sounds obvious but I’ll unpack it a bit. It’s so much different than the value that I was asked to bring as a VP of Sales leading an entire, nationwide sales team.
One of the things that I tried to do early on was to make sure that in every role that I was taking on, I was adding value. If they were to take me out of that role or to win the lottery, for example, and I’m no longer there, is it better? When I say it, I primarily mean the people around me. Are they better equipped for their job? They worked for me and worked with me. That, to me, is always important to focus on in any career path.
It’s less about, “I got the next step,” More about, “Now that I’m in this role.” I remember when I first started, the rule of thumb was to never take a horizontal role. I took one. My first sales role was out in Colorado and Wyoming as a sales territory. That was more of rural territory. I wanted to keep moving up, become a sales manager and keep growing in leadership roles.When you don't have sales experience, trying to find a job in sales can be challenging. Click To Tweet
The knock on me was anybody can sell out in the country but can you sell in a metro area? I’m like, “I will show you.” I took a role in a metropolitan area. It’s the same role, just in a different territory. Back then, you couldn’t take a horizontal role. I’m glad I did because it opened up a lot of opportunities for me. I didn’t always do this but you step back and say, “Where can I have the most value and impact?”
Where you focus is always on people like, “How can I have my biggest impact on people?” It doesn’t mean you sit around and sing kumbaya. You got to make hard decisions, do things that are difficult to do, especially around people, build the right team and do those kinds of things. It doesn’t mean all the people are happy. That’s not the case.
When you’re focused on the biggest impact in your role, my experience is there are all kinds of opportunities, especially at Stanley Black & Decker. It’s less about, “What’s Paul’s experience? Does that experience fit for this role over here?” It’s more about, “We have given Paul opportunities that are outside of his experience and he has figured it out. There’s some value there.”
That means, “There’s an operations role over here and Paul doesn’t have operations experience.” I, for example, was given operations roles because I proved, “Wherever he goes, he’s focused on value and he figures it out.” When I think about my career and how things have progressed, those are some of the things that come to mind for me.
[00:12:32] From what I’m hearing, do you define value as leaving whatever role that you’re leaving better than when you found it? The people, structures and systems are better. How are you defining that? What do you define leadership as? What is your vision of leadership within that particular viewpoint?
[00:12:59] Leave it better than you found it. I joke around if I were ever to leave the company or step out into a new role, I would like people to at least for 1 week or 2 be pretty disappointed and say things like, “I wish Paul was still here.” The reality is life moves on. The company can exist without me. It did before me and it will after me. I would like to think that, at least for a couple of weeks, it’s challenging. That would tell me that Paul had an impact and you take that impact out. People notice it. I recognize any more after two weeks, life moves on and the company is going to figure it out.
Leaving people primarily better than the way we found it. I was having a conversation with somebody about this leadership aspect. The higher you go in an organization, the harder it is to add value. You got to focus on it. You get to that director, senior director or VP role. It’s so much easier to report the news the higher you go versus make the news. I have fallen into that trap too like, “I’ve got this big title. Everybody should bring me information. What I ask for, I should get.”
What happens inadvertently is a lot of times in those situations, people are spending too much of their time feeding you information and not getting the work done, transforming what needs to be transformed or improving processes because they’re so busy getting you information that you’re asking for. To me, leadership is removing obstacles. Think about any leader, sales manager, operations manager and up through the chain. No one adds obstacles on purpose.
You have to be very self-aware as a leader, “What am I asking my team to do? Is it helping them get their job done more effectively or is it hampering them?” Always constantly think about that. For me, it’s all about removing obstacles. When my team bounces into me, “Is it easy? Do things get done?” It doesn’t mean I do the work for them. Another part of leadership is preparing people for their next role as well. If all you ever do is do their work for them because you find value in that, eventually you will find a bunch of people on your team handing you their problems and you go fix it for them.
I have fallen into that too as well. I’m like, “I’m doing all this stuff. I’m a great leader.” I look around and I’m like, “I’m carrying everybody’s problems and they’re not getting any better.” Long story short, if I can boil down what leadership is, it’s leaving people better than they found it. Sometimes that means challenging them. It’s not doing their work for them but removing obstacles or moving. I always say, “Sometimes, as a leader, you can’t move. Obstacles are sometimes big.”
If I can, as a leader, nudge that to the side so that they can get around it or lower it a little bit so they can climb over it, that’s what a leader does. Give them the tools that they need and always be on the lookout for, “Am I adding value by removing, lowering or moving obstacles versus the other way around?” Sometimes it’s not that easy to see. That’s why self-awareness as a leader is so important. “I have always done it this way. Should I keep doing this way? Is it working the way it should be working? Is it easy for people? Do I make it harder on them because of things that I’m asking for?”
[00:17:16] The job of any leader is to make new leaders, sit there and say, “Who are the people that are part of my team that is going to be the next set of stars? Who are the people that can replace me?” I have never worked in a multibillion-dollar organization in a position where I was going up the ladder. The people that I know that do and I consult them all the time tell me that they can’t be promoted until they have put somebody in place that can take their role for them. That’s important.
I’m a big believer of if somebody comes to me with a problem, they better have two solutions. I may not like either one of them but my goal is to get them to think about, “What are the possible solutions, ramifications and things that are going to be good for the organization, customer and the team? Let’s talk about it and make a decision.” I want them to come in and feel empowered to be able to make a decision and at least let them know that their thought process is leading this. That’s important.
[00:18:29s] To your point, when they’re a part of it, they take more ownership of it. I’m an executive coach on the side as well. I had a client internal in Stanley Black & Decker and we were working together. One of the things she was doing was taking ownership of people’s problems and solving them for them. Her focus is, “My value is to fill the gap and solve things for people.” She had one of these light bulb moments where she recognized, “The more I do that, the more it stunts the growth of those people and their development as leaders.” That’s easy for a lot of leaders to do. I have fallen into that as well. That’s a great way to look at it for sure.
[00:19:27] Let’s define organizational effectiveness in your way. Where do you see it now? Where do you see it going? How is it going to help organizations be better organizations moving forward?
[00:19:45] My title in the company is Organizational Effectiveness. You could spread that across every single challenge that the company has and define it as well. That means we’re not effective as an organization in the way we manage reports and fleet. There could be a bunch of different stuff. For me, it’s the ways of working and how we work. That’s a major focus and has been for years. Stanley Black & Decker in 2023 will be a 180-year-old company. It started in 1843. Think about what the culture and society were like back in the mid-1800s when our company started. It’s completely different.
Organizational effectiveness for me is being proactive in continuing to transform the way we work. What does that look like? That’s anything from instead of spending all day in Excel spreadsheets, which we did years ago, we find technology that does that work for us and transform the way we work every day. Instead of spending 3 or 4 hours putting data together, that data is there in 10 to 15 seconds. I spend my time building strategies, areas of focus and making adjustments to what we’re doing versus doing all of that. That’s one example.
Some real practical examples for me around organizational effectiveness are how we meet, communicate with each other and prioritize those basics of working. Like everything, that evolves and needs to evolve. It’s hard to have 2, 3 and 4-hour meetings and even 1-hour meetings anymore. That’s a lot of time. We’re transforming this at Stanley Black & Decker and thinking about, “Can you get that meeting done in 45 minutes versus 1 hour?”
I always use the analogy of the old game show back in the ‘70s, Name That Tune. Name That Tune was this game show where you had two contestants and there were these savants around music and songs. They would challenge each other, “Based on this category, I can name that tune in three notes.” “Name it.” There’s somebody that plays three notes on a piano. Based on the category, they either choose the right song or not. The point is it’s the same concept. “Can you get that done? Instead of 30 minutes, can you do it in 20 minutes?”Make sure that you’re adding value to any job role you’re taking on. Click To Tweet
Who is invited to that meeting used to be, “Invite God and everybody to the meeting. We’re having a meeting. Join?” Now it’s like, “Everybody doesn’t have to be in this meeting. Let’s pick the right 4 or 5 people to get the work done. Let’s get in and get out.” It doesn’t mean we don’t build relationships and those kinds of things. You do. Meetings around organizational effectiveness are the most expensive thing that we do in our company.
[00:23:11] It’s a huge time-waster and costs a fortune if you take a look at the ban hours involved in any particular meeting.
[00:23:19] It is but the reality is we still have to meet. There are a lot of things to get done. A big part of organizational effectiveness is doing that and saying, “We’re going to move away from treating meetings as work.” In other words, in our subconscious mind, “I worked hard. I had eight meetings, especially in a corporate setting.” It’s moving away from saying, “That’s not work. Let’s treat meetings as a way to get more work done.” Have that mindset around meetings. If you’re not going to be able to get more work done by having that meeting, don’t have a meeting. You have to figure out another way to either communicate the information or get the work done.
[00:24:01] It’s changing the dynamics of meetings. It’s thinking no longer in 60-minute blocks instead of thinking in 15-minute blocks. Maybe we have a 45-minute meeting. It doesn’t have to be an hour because it goes from 8:00 to 9:00 or 8:30 to 9:30. Maybe it could be a 45-minute meeting and we chunk out that extra 15 minutes for people to sit there and think, reflect, figure out what needs to happen next and be able to activate instead of going from meeting to meeting.
I remember years ago I got invited to the head office of one of the major health authorities. I started sitting down at a meeting at 7:30 or 7:45 in the morning. All of a sudden, I looked up and it was 5:00 in the afternoon and we had been in meetings all day. It was a revolving meeting, “Can you sit in on this meeting? Ben, can you hang on for 45 minutes? We have something we need to discuss. Can you come back in about 45 minutes?” They had people going in and out of the office with scribbled notes and running off.
At the end of the day, you wonder how effective were these people having all these meetings instead of taking the time to reflect between meetings and sit there going, “Did we get the right things done and focus on the things that are important or we just had the meeting because this meeting always happens between 8:00 to 9:00 on Monday mornings?”
The world is changing. COVID is COVID but let’s forget about it for a moment and talk about hybrid work, a diversified workforce and everything that goes along with that. How are organizations like Stanley taking a look at that and saying, “How do we communicate, bring people in the meetings and become more effective as an organization when we’re not in front of each other and we’re spread across time zones, area codes and all different sorts of things?”
[00:26:17] Like everybody else, we’re trying to figure that out. It’s going to settle into a hybrid type of model where there’s an opportunity for people to meet in offices for key meetings and key connection points. The flexibility of being able to work from home, at least as we surveyed people throughout Stanley Black & Decker, is a real positive thing for people. We’re going to keep that but we’re still trying to figure that out.
The biggest thing that we’ve done is having very empathetic leadership from the top-down recognizing, “This is 100% one way versus 100% the other way,” is not the case anymore. If you need to step away, take care of some family business or drop the kids off at school, every manager throughout Stanley Black & Decker that I have encountered gives and takes that flexibility. That’s a real thing and benefit for working for a company like Stanley Black & Decker, where there’s very empathetic leadership.
The reality is we’re going to have to figure that out, get back into offices and find a way to connect. We’re still figuring that out. What’s happening, at least what I have seen and I started to do a lot here, is connect with people that you work with within your geographic area. Connect with coffee, go grab lunch and a lot of one-on-one or 2 to 3 people getting together. That’s where it’s starting because people do need that human connection.
As we go into 2022, we’re going to figure out more of that. As I have heard a lot of people say and they’re 100% right is it’s not going to go back to the 8:00 to 4:30 or 8:00 to 5:00, at least in that office setting. Stanley Black & Decker has a bunch of factories, logistics and distribution all around the world, so that’s different. Those people have been navigating in those settings very well, especially in that office setting.
We are going to go back and it’s going to look a lot different but having the flexibility and leadership from top-down saying, “This is going to be different. We are going to be flexible.” Challenging employees to say, “It’s going to be easy to take advantage of this flexibility.” Please don’t. We’re being flexible and counting on our employees to do the same.
The work that’s getting done is less about, “I got to put 10 to 11 hours in.” It’s more about getting the work done. “Here are my priorities for the week, month, quarter or year. Am I delivering on those priorities?” There are seasons for that. If that takes being in the office three days a week and collaborating, then it’s going to take that. If it takes seven and a half hours a day to get what I need to be done, then that’s okay too. Having leadership that recognizes that and is flexible in those areas has been important for us.
[00:29:47] Three thoughts came out of that and these can be short or long answers. One is leadership. Was there an empathy shift because of COVID? Was this something that was already baked into the culture at Stanley Black & Decker pre-COVID that served you well through the COVID process?
[00:30:11] Very empathetic leadership is part of the culture. When all of that stuff happened in 2020, it wasn’t a shock to the system. Everybody hit the ground running working for home. It wasn’t like we stopped and thought, “What do we do?” We were ready and had empathetic leadership. When they said, “We need you to work from home,” it wasn’t like, “No.” We already had a lot of flexibility with the ways of working. We don’t have a punch the clock culture, so coming into the last couple of years made it very easy to make that quick transition.
[00:31:00] Number two, do you see organizations, especially larger organizations, going more to a hub and spoke type of model where there are smaller head office and satellite offices either around the city, state and country? Do you think that there is going to be that move back to the centralized head office mentality again soon?
[00:31:24] Soon, it’s going to be the former, more of a hub and spoke. A lot of people are clamoring to get back together. The question is, what does that turn into? Once people start getting back together, do we start to see a lot of synergy versus what the last couple of years tells us, “We should find a way to get people back together?” Where I live here in Indiana, we’ve got our security business. Stanley Black & Decker has a large commercial security business a lot of people don’t know and most notably tools company.
Right here in Indiana, where I live, we’ve got our global headquarters for security. We consolidated. We had a hub and spoke and a bunch of offices for different companies that we acquired all around. We said, “Let’s all get together in one headquarter building.” We were there for about two years and then, 2020 happened. It is going to be more of a hub and spoke to start in short-term.
I wouldn’t be surprised if people start getting back together again. It’s not going to be 100%. We’re going to quickly see the value of people getting together and those quick conversations at the coffee station and check-ins as you’re passing each other in the hallway to go do other things. We’re missing that. A lot of companies are going to see, “There’s real value in that. How do we continue to foster that going forward?”
[00:33:06] The third thing that I was thinking about is it more came down to dealing with performance potential. It comes down to sitting there and saying, “We have a thought process and it’s very difficult to move forward with. Out of sight, out of mind.” We’re dealing with a lot of people that have been out of sight. How do we as leaders make sure that we are getting the best potential out of these employees when we are not there right in front of them? That’s a cultural shift, leadership and training. Not every organization has a Head of Organizational Effectiveness. How do smaller organizations make sure that they are maintaining and growing the potential of their employees if these people are out of sight, so they’re not out of mind?Leadership is removing obstacles that come your way. Click To Tweet
[00:34:14] One super practical thing is to have fewer video meetings. I have talked to a lot of leaders in Stanley that are having a lot more phone calls with people. People can walk around and don’t have to put on pretenses. If you’re on video all the time, it wears you out. Have more phone conversations and get together when you can. Years back, I was a sales manager where every salesperson on my team didn’t live in the town I was in.
If sales leaders are reading, you’re not in your head saying, “I have had a remote team my whole career. That’s part of it.” Have more phone calls and find ways to communicate regularly differently and creatively. Don’t do the same thing the same way every time around communication. The second thing is to have conversations with people on your team about them, how they’re doing and where they see their career going.
It’s so easy to have those, “I’ve got one-on-ones with my team all the time and they’re very tactical.” You need to have those conversations, “What are the numbers? What’s the project status?” Have consistently even if it’s only once a month, “How are you doing? How is your job going? What do you love about your job? What’s one thing you would change about your job? What do you see next for you?” As a leader, asking those questions and letting employees talk about those things, there’s a great connection there first of all.
Employees are like, “My manager asked me important questions and paid attention to what I’m what I’m saying.” You can learn a lot from those. A lot of times, you would be surprised at how many people say, “Nobody has ever asked me that before.” Especially in working remotely and having a remote team, that’s a great way to consistently find out what they’re doing, how they’re doing, what they love about what they’re doing, what’s next for them, those types of conversations.
You can’t have too many of those. It’s not going to change a lot from week to week but having that conversation once a month, “What have you learned in the last month? What are you looking forward to?” Those types of things help connect you as a leader and draw people in a way. First of all, it keeps them engaged. I have found that it keeps people engaged. As a leader, you start to understand who’s next, who can replace you and those types of things. That’s important.
[00:37:13] I have two questions and I’m going to let you go. The first question is what’s the one piece of advice you would give to business owners and senior leaders when developing organizational effectiveness?
[00:37:30] One piece of advice is don’t overthink it. It’s easy for me because I’m pretty simple-minded but I keep it practical. Look around your organization and say, “What habits do we have that we should change? Those are habits that are in place because that’s the only thing we could do when we started and it’s still in place.” Bring somebody along, maybe somebody new in your organization. A great question for somebody that you have added newly is to say, “How would you describe the culture around here? What’s one thing you love about your culture?”
As a senior leader or owner of a business, that’s a great exercise. It’s hard but find somebody that you trust that’s new to the organization and ask them, “What’s this organization? How would you describe our culture? What’s one thing you love about it and one thing you would change?” You will learn a lot. People will tell you things that you don’t see because you’re in it every day. Self-awareness is important in a lot of aspects, especially around organizational effectiveness.
The other thing and I keep going back to this, is to check as a senior leader and owner what are you asking your people to do? Are you asking the right thing? A super practical thing for me that I always did is, “Am I asking my team for information that I can find myself?” If I am, I’m going to knock that off, find the information and use the time with my team. Instead of information-sharing them with me, we’re going to strategize. We’re like, “Here’s the information. I know it’s shocking. I’m a senior leader, but I pulled the report myself. I got logged in and pulled the report. Here’s what I see. What do you see?”
Think about the time that you’re pulling your people away. “Is it useful time?” It could be and things like, “Do you need to do it as often as you are?” A lot of leaders say, “I have been having a weekly staff meeting for the last ten years.” Does it need to be weekly? Maybe it’s once a month. In the in-between time, you find a communication tool.
At Stanley Black & Decker, we use Teams. You set up a Teams channel and share information back and forth. “Here’s this week’s update. I noticed a gap in performance over here. What do you think?” People go back and forth with it. Once a month, you’re together and taking that time. To me, organizational effectiveness is a huge concept that looks great on a PowerPoint but in reality, it’s, “What are the things that you are doing every day or not doing that can make you first of all as an owner or a senior leader more effective?”
The more effective you are, that’s going to trickle down to your people. The more you focus on your effectiveness and have that self-awareness of, “Where am I spending my time? Where am I asking my people to spend their time on my behalf,” and challenge yourself there, then it’s only natural that you’re going to give them some productivity time back as you make adjustments.
[00:40:54] Paul, this has been an amazing conversation. Thanks to Pablo for putting us together. I’ve got one last question. It’s one that I ask everybody as I let them out the door. When you leave a meeting, get your car and drive away, what’s the one thing you want people to think about you when you’re not in the room?
[00:41:18] The first thing that comes to my mind is, “I can trust that person and that person cares about me. If I needed help from that person, he would provide it.” That’s what I want them to think.
[00:41:42] It’s great to be the person that people could trust, sit there and go, “This person is going to steer me in the right direction, be open and honest. If they make a mistake, they’re going to fix it.” I know you are that person. Paul, thank you for being such an amazing guest, taking the time and giving such great insights.
[00:42:04] It was my pleasure, what an honor to be here with you, Ben. Maybe I can come back sometime.
[00:42:11] We would love that.
[00:42:13] Thank you.
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About Paul Hevesy
Paul is a husband (21 years), father of 4, an author (1st book publishing in 2022), executive coach and currently a practitioner of organizational effectiveness. His experience ranges from sales, operations, general management and HR spanning a 20+ year career at Stanley Black and Decker.